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Peugeot 50 TSDI

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  • Peugeot 50 TSDI

    Is the fuel pump for the Aprillia SR50R Factory Di-Tech a workable substitute for the original Peugeot fuel pump?
    I am asking this because I am having some difficulty finding a new pump. When the fuel pump primes, I find that I can easily squeeze the outlet fuel hose and suspect that means that the fuel pump is no longer able to supply fuel at 5 Bar.

  • #2
    Hi Erico ..
    Yes it is .. Almost the whole TSDI system is the same as Ditech's or Purejets ..
    Same goes for air/fuel injectors etc ..only the ECU is different , for it isnt possible (yet) to alter these with Peug for say aprilia mappings ..
    All are Synerject system . What are points to keep in mind in with peugeots are :
    The Aircompressor ..its plastic wheel is many times so far degraded that it doesnt create enough air pressure any more ..much more the case as the fuel pump being worn out .
    Check the rubber air hose for cracks , or leaking clamps ..the original peugeot clamps are real french sh*t quality .
    Last edited by SF2Heino; 5 July 2010, 17:59.
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    • #3
      Hi SFHeino,
      Thanks for the information. I will inspect the hoses. The pump that is installed doesn't put out enough fuel under pressure any more.
      I am waiting for my new (blank) immobilizer, fuel pump to arrive. I had to replace the ignition switch as the scoot didn't come with a master(red) key. I installed a Malossi ECU (5512789) as well. I should be able to get my scoot started soon.

      Comment


      • #4
        Those malossi ECU's are great , but a bit expensive though ..
        With a malossi ECU its also possible to change a standard exhaust for another model wich i normally would never advice with a TSDI or Ditech . With a standard ecu exhaust changes only will cause problems . Type of exhaust like a SiTO plus or a Leovince touring are nice choices after an ecu change , but avoid all race/expansion models . Top speed with that ecu will be a little higher as the standard ecu already without its limitation ..80 to 90 km/hour should be obtainable with the 50cc .

        Sometimes it does happen that the fuel pump is worn out , but instead of the diagnosis worn pump and lack of fuel pressure idd look further into the possiblity of air pressure loss .As all air needs to be injected too instead of simply sucking it in the diagnose maybe wrong , the airpump's contact wheel is worn after about a 9000km's with many Ely's .Its also the same part as an aircompressor from a Ditech .

        Another nasty thing both Jetforces and Elystars seem to have is worn out crankshaft bearings .Because the massive full rounded crank its very susceptive to worn bearings causing leaking bearing seals . it starts mostly with ever increasing startup problems , like it needs more and more turns to finally fire up .
        Especially the bearing at the ignition is difficult to inspect , but many problematic Elystars ive seem leaked pressure on that side ,, oily metal behind the ignition can point problems there , but its quite a lot of parts that need demontage to make it clearly visible ...Think can better mention this also , as it can be helpfull finding your problem .

        kind regards:
        Henk
        Last edited by SF2Heino; 6 July 2010, 00:09.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by SF2Heino View Post
          Those malossi ECU's are great , but a bit expensive though .. very true,,,€235,00
          With a malossi ECU its also possible to change a standard exhaust for another model wich i normally would never advice with a TSDI or Ditech . With a standard ecu exhaust changes only will cause problems . Type of exhaust like a SiTO plus or a Leovince touring are nice choices after an ecu change , but avoid all race/expansion models . Top speed with that ecu will be a little higher as the standard ecu already without its limitation ..80 to 90 km/hour should be obtainable with the 50cc . It has a LeoVince TT

          Sometimes it does happen that the fuel pump is worn out , but instead of the diagnosis worn pump and lack of fuel pressure idd look further into the possiblity of air pressure loss .As all air needs to be injected too instead of simply sucking it in the diagnose maybe wrong , the airpump's contact wheel is worn after about a 9000km's with many Ely's .Its also the same part as an aircompressor from a Ditech .

          Another nasty thing both Jetforces and Elystars seem to have is worn out crankshaft bearings .Because the massive full rounded crank its very susceptive to worn bearings causing leaking bearing seals . it starts mostly with ever increasing startup problems , like it needs more and more turns to finally fire up .
          Especially the bearing at the ignition is difficult to inspect , but many problematic Elystars ive seem leaked pressure on that side ,, oily metal behind the ignition can point problems there , but its quite a lot of parts that need demontage to make it clearly visible ...Think can better mention this also , as it can be helpfull finding your problem .

          kind regards:
          Henk
          I does have a good bright spark. Before the ECU crapped out the immobilizer led didn't stay lit. I do hope the thing starts up when I install the new immo unit. I will let you know how it goes after the install and key memorization.

          Thanks,
          Eric

          Comment


          • #6
            Immobilizer is a bummer with all peug models ..stupid invention I think and of a crappy quality .Its a pretty common failure .
            Dont throw the old cdi away though ,for some joker here was able to open it and simply resoldered its printed circuit contacts inside ..it seems easily openable!!.

            The spark it produces is like an electric welding machine , true , so do watch the fingers ..burned a small hole in one of mine after the owner decided it was fun to click the start button while i was holding the spark plug cap!! Crazy idiot lol ..the spark jumped over 10cm straight for the metal and straight through my skin !!!
            If it was still sparking afer the cockpit light/led stayed on the problem wasnt the immobilizer though ..for it completely blocks the spark when it remains 'on' .

            The led is supposed to go out after contact is turned to on . When contact goes off it should go into a flickering mode . When the led stays on continiously after contact is set to on , it means it didnt release the immobilizer and its still on ,thus not sparking at all .
            Last edited by SF2Heino; 6 July 2010, 02:33.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by SF2Heino View Post
              Immobilizer is a bummer with all peug models ..stupid invention I think and of a crappy quality .Its a pretty common failure .
              Dont throw the old cdi away though ,for some joker here was able to open it and simply resoldered its printed circuit contacts inside ..it seems easily openable!!.

              The spark it produces is like an electric welding machine , true , so do watch the fingers ..burned a small hole in one of mine after the owner decided it was fun to click the start button while i was holding the spark plug cap!! Crazy idiot lol ..the spark jumped over 10cm straight for the metal and straight through my skin !!!
              If it was still sparking afer the cockpit light/led stayed on the problem wasnt the immobilizer though ..for it completely blocks the spark when it remains 'on' .

              The led is supposed to go out after contact is turned to on . When contact goes off it should go into a flickering mode . When the led stays on continuously after contact is set to on , it means it didnt release the immobilizer and its still on ,thus not sparking at all .
              I already opened the ECU and inspected it. There were no visibly burned components or traces on the board. I am an electronics technician. Soldering a pcb in not an issue for me at all. I have never been zapped by a spark plug before. I have an aversion to >20,000-25000 volts on my fingers. I always use an insulated pair of pliers ;)

              About the immobilizer...that is exactly why I ordered one from AJSutton. It tries to start at first but no joy. Hopefully the immo unit will arrive today.
              Last edited by erico; 6 July 2010, 10:37.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by erico View Post
                I already opened the ECU and inspected it. There were no visibly burned components or traces on the board. I am an electronics technician. Soldering a pcb in not an issue for me at all. I have never been zapped by a spark plug before. I have an aversion to >20,000-25000 volts on my fingers. I always use an insulated pair of pliers ;)

                About the immobilizer...that is exactly why I ordered one from AJSutton. It tries to start at first but no joy. Hopefully the immo unit will arrive today.

                Hi Erico ...wise to use the pliers ..i do some tinkering with consumer electronics too , but never with a muppet standing next to me pushing the start button lol
                From previous experiences its seems the board itselfs warps a little in time and the capacity in there used is very poor Q and seems to get leaky sometimes causing an immo to loose its progged code ...
                Hearing what you describe though my thoughds are going towards leaking bearing seals through worn bearings or the contact wheel of the aircompressor .., but lets wait if it runs with the new immo..
                In the worst scenario you would have a an extra spare immo wich is always a wanted second hand part so can be resold privately if bought in error .
                Good luck ..hope the 'force' is with you ...:p
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SF2Heino View Post
                  Hi Erico ...wise to use the pliers ..i do some tinkering with consumer electronics too , but never with a muppet standing next to me pushing the start button lol
                  From previous experiences its seems the board itselfs warps a little in time and the capacity in there used is very poor Q and seems to get leaky sometimes causing an immo to loose its progged code ...
                  Hearing what you describe though my thoughds are going towards leaking bearing seals through worn bearings or the contact wheel of the aircompressor .., but lets wait if it runs with the new immo..
                  In the worst scenario you would have a an extra spare immo wich is always a wanted second hand part so can be resold privately if bought in error .
                  Good luck ..hope the 'force' is with you ...:p
                  If with the new immo there is still no start, I will remove the air pump and look at the eccentric cam surface for wear. The air hose between the air pump and the air injector does a crack in it at the compressor end but it is below the clamp. The OEM french clamps have been replaced with decent ones already. The scoot has 22,000 KM on it. When I bought it the starts were quick and the exhaust note sounded sweet.

                  I hope the "force" is with me too! :)

                  Looks like the "force" is not with me. :( I installed the new IMMO module and the Jetty still does not start. The immobilizer led still stays on after the switch has been turned on. The Injection ( the "K") diagnostic lamp does go out after the self test is complete when the ignition is turned on. I will do the immo diagnostic to see what codes are there in the three phase test.

                  I have a question for you. Can the Malossi ECU's be flashed with a gameboy interface with the OEM Peugeot programming?
                  Last edited by erico; 6 July 2010, 16:18.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by erico View Post
                    If with the new immo there is still no start, I will remove the air pump and look at the eccentric cam surface for wear. The air hose between the air pump and the air injector does a crack in it at the compressor end but it is below the clamp. The OEM french clamps have been replaced with decent ones already. The scoot has 22,000 KM on it. When I bought it the starts were quick and the exhaust note sounded sweet.

                    I hope the "force" is with me too! :)

                    Looks like the "force" is not with me. :( I installed the new IMMO module and the Jetty still does not start. The immobilizer led still stays on after the switch has been turned on. The Injection ( the "K") diagnostic lamp does go out after the self test is complete when the ignition is turned on. I will do the immo diagnostic to see what codes are there in the three phase test.

                    I have a question for you. Can the Malossi ECU's be flashed with a gameboy interface with the OEM Peugeot programming?
                    Hmm ...
                    technically the ECU is the same as an original one , my guess is when connected to a gameboy it will overwrite the mapping like it does with a standard ECU but youll loose the special mapping Malossi put in there then .
                    If you still have the original ECU i suggest you'll try to do flashing of the immo with the original ECU placed ..until the LED goes out after contact is set to on .Even when injection fails with the old ECU it should still be okay to flash the immo , and after that replace ECU again for the malossi one .

                    The crack in the air injection hose is a common failure too , happened to quite a lot of other Ely's . Idd do a demontage of the plastic housing on the ignition side to be able to inspect the crankshaft bearing from the flywheel side . With a little wiggeling the housing comes loose so that the top cover hiding the cylinderhead can remain seated , saves a lot of demontaging ..22.000km is about the time many Ely's seem to show severe wear of bearings on the right side .
                    [SIGPIC]

                    [/SIGPIC]
                    ............當您朝右边看时您什么都不能看到在左边!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SF2Heino View Post
                      Hmm ...
                      technically the ECU is the same as an original one , my guess is when connected to a gameboy it will overwrite the mapping like it does with a standard ECU but youll loose the special mapping Malossi put in there then .
                      If you still have the original ECU i suggest you'll try to do flashing of the immo with the original ECU placed ..until the LED goes out after contact is set to on .Even when injection fails with the old ECU it should still be okay to flash the immo , and after that replace ECU again for the malossi one .

                      The crack in the air injection hose is a common failure too , happened to quite a lot of other Ely's . Idd do a demontage of the plastic housing on the ignition side to be able to inspect the crankshaft bearing from the flywheel side . With a little wiggeling the housing comes loose so that the top cover hiding the cylinderhead can remain seated , saves a lot of demontaging ..22.000km is about the time many Ely's seem to show severe wear of bearings on the right side .
                      I have the original ECU. The problem with it was that a gameboy with the Peugeot cartridge does recognize it at all and the injection system diag. lamp stayed on continuously. I will try plugging it in to see if I can flash the immo.

                      OK. I tried it with the original ECU. I get the 2 sec no led and then continuously on. The immo diag sheet says that the 2 sec. code means that the system is not programmed. I put the Malossi back in place.

                      That is a bit confusing since the injection diagnostic lamp goes out so the ECU is still OK. That was why i queried you about possibly reflashing the Malossi ECU. the 1/2 sec flashes when the ignition is off (according to the manual) means that the immobilizer is actively blocking an engine start. I have no problem with not having the extra acceleration and top speed from the Malossi ECU if the original Peug software has replaced the Malossi map. All I want at this point is being able to get the scoot to run.
                      Last edited by erico; 6 July 2010, 18:12.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Im trying to find out in the meanwhile what the peculiarities are of the Malossi ECU for it seems when placed in a tsdi there's a light in the cockpit that keeps burning .not shure if its the immo LED or not yet ..but it does give an error and some error messages wich should disappear after a reset ..the light keeps on burning though , thats what i read on another Dutch forum about this ECU..
                        idd say simply check if it sparks ...when immo is erratic in any way theres no spark at all .

                        yep seems to be the immo led that keeps lit using the Malossi ecu

                        Opmerking: IMU (chipkey) led blijft branden met Malossi ECU. Dit is geen fout, dit komt omdat de IMU geen antwoord krijgt van de Peugeot ECU die dit wel doet. Zolang de Malossi ECU er in zit, hoef je je hier niet druk om te maken.

                        translated:
                        note: IMMO Led stays lit using a malossi ecu.
                        This is no error but is because the IMMOunit gets no answer from the Malossi ECU like a Peugeot original ECU would . As long as the Malossi ecu is mounted one doesnt need to worry about about it .
                        ...
                        Last edited by SF2Heino; 6 July 2010, 18:25.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SF2Heino View Post
                          Im trying to find out in the meanwhile what the peculiarities are of the Malossi ECU for it seems when placed in a tsdi there's a light in the cockpit that keeps burning .not shure if its the immo LED or not yet ..but it does give an error and some error messages wich should disappear after a reset ..the light keeps on burning though , thats what i read on another Dutch forum about this ECU..
                          idd say simply check if it sparks ...when immo is erratic in any way theres no spark at all .
                          My understanding is that it depends on which Malossi ECU version is installed. There are two different numbers. The older one kept the injection diagnostic lamp burning but the newer one that I have does not.
                          I will check for a spark and update this.

                          Yep. There is spark when start attempts are made.
                          Last edited by erico; 6 July 2010, 18:21.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Opmerking: IMU (chipkey) led blijft branden met Malossi ECU. Dit is geen fout, dit komt omdat de IMU geen antwoord krijgt van de Peugeot ECU die dit wel doet. Zolang de Malossi ECU er in zit, hoef je je hier niet druk om te maken.

                            translated:
                            note: IMMO Led stays lit using a malossi ecu.
                            This is no error but is because the IMMOunit gets no answer from the Malossi ECU like a Peugeot original ECU would . As long as the Malossi ecu is mounted one doesnt need to worry about about it .
                            ...
                            OK. thanks. There was indeed fuel on the plug.
                            I am thinking that I might have to remove the cylinder head so I can check the get the air injector out. When I replaced the o-rings I put the larger outer o-ring on the wrong side. It won't pop out with TDC compression.
                            Last edited by Flaming Rox; 6 July 2010, 19:04.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If it sparks and theres fuel .. then go out from the worst scenario Erico .
                              Things can only go better seen from off there .
                              Worst case would be a bearing problem , wich causes air pressure leakage through the crankseals .. its got about that amount of miles on the clock to seriously consider this scenario. Its some work but not the most costly thing to fix . If you feel any movement on the crankshaft , especially from the ignition (right) side think you can conclude thats the original error the previous owner decided on to sell it .


                              air injectors can be broken , but in practice havent had one wich really was .. mosttimes it was the crankbearing/seals combi ...second best was a worn out air compressor ..concentric wheel is kind of a teflon wheel rolling over the fully rounded cracksides thus picking up the motion for pumping its air ...
                              Another trick of one of our members did was he tried to connect the air hose directly to a external compressor and applied the air this way .. started and ran fine wich told him the compressor was worn out .

                              TSDI's are a bummer to get experienced with , but once you can fully understand its achillesheel and can tackle these inconveniences it becomes a very rewarding scoot . Its knowledge many pro-dealers get grey hairs from because of its complexity ..being able to hme fix it will shurely lead to admirance from many ;)
                              Last edited by SF2Heino; 6 July 2010, 18:49.
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